We've talked frequently throughout the class about trying to understand what each main character wants. For that matter, we've also talked about what several important characters in each film want? It's not always straightforward and these complex figures make it difficult to reduce to one variable.
Given our discussions, what is it that Curtis in Dead Presidents wants in his life? When he ultimately decides to work with the others on the heist, is this consistent with the character we've seen throughout the film in terms of who he is and the decisions he has chosen to make? Are there other moments in which we see Curtis demonstrate how he's changed if he has? Why or Why not?
Please respond with a thoughtful and thorough answer.
Toward the beginning of the movie it's pretty apparent that Curtis wants to fight in Vietnam and not go to college, despite his mother's hopes for him. After Vietnam, he doesn't really seem to have an idea of what he wants to do. His plans for the future after graduating from high school seemed to end after Vietnam. Now, his plan seems to only be about making money - which makes sense considering the new, stressful situation that he is in with two (and a third on the way) people financially depending on him. Curtis' character has definitely changed throughout the film, and his decision to not only participate in but plan the heist is in no way consistent with the Curtis from the beginning. His character change is especially evident when you compare Curtis at the pool/bar place before the war and after. When Curtis walks into the bar after coming back from the war, he is full of confidence and knows everybody. Before the war, he was much more timid. Curtis' change is also apparent when comparing the way that he treats Terrence Howard (Cowboy). Before the war, he is scared of Cowboy and gets cut by him. After, Curtis beats him furiously with a pool stick. All of this shows that the reason (or one of the reasons) for Curtis' immense change in character can be attributed to his experience in the Vietnam War.
ReplyDeleteCurtis is lost both before and after serving in Vietnam. As he graduates high school, Curtis doesn't know quite what he wants or to whom he is loyal. His parents want him to go to college, but he doesn't. He gets Juanita pregnant, but he doesn't choose to stay and be a father to their child. He has no sense of belonging, except perhaps when he is with Kirby, who is a father figure to Curtis. When he is in Vietnam, Curtis belongs only because he chooses to keep his head down and forget everything from the outside world. It's his coping mechanism, and it seems to work well for him in the sense that he is neither killed nor addicted to drugs (like Skip). When he returns to the United States, however, he again struggles to find a sense of belonging. He doesn't fit into Juanita and his daughter's life. His parents don't understand him. He tries to earn an honest living at the butcher's shop, but he is laid off. He wants to settle down, have a family, live a normal life. But like so many veterans, Curtis returns a broken man and conventional life does not work for him. Surely Curtis has changed when he returns from the war; he has matured into a tougher, more confident, hardened man. He remains the same in that he is not satisfied with his life. Perhaps he's somewhat of a thrill seeker, but that's not the right word. Curtis is still looking for something to make his life meaningful.
ReplyDeleteI believe that, in the beginning, Curtis wanted to escape the confines of school while also serving in the Marines for his country. This was a very honorable hope, which could easily be achieved, but it came at a price. Vietnam distressed Curtis and after returning home, he suffered from PTSD much like many other soldiers. In addition to the stress of PTSD, Curtis had man mouths to feed. I believe he doesn’t want to participate in the heist, he needs to. He needs to bring in enough money to feed his child and his pregnant wife. Seeing no other money-making opportunity he participates in the heist to try to earn enough money to keep food on the table. Curtis also must bring money to his family to prove to Cudi that he can provide for the family. I believe that Curtis wants to live a normal life, but given his situation, he can’t.
ReplyDeleteI think that what Curtis really wants is to fit his stereotypes of a “man”. When Curtis decides to go join the Marines instead of go to college, he tells his father “the marines made a man out of you”, and I think Curtis wants the same thing for himself. Curtis goes off to Vietnam and joined an elite fighting group, almost wanting to prove some sort of toughness. He then returns home to his girlfriend and daughter and struggles with himself because he can’t get a job with good pay or support his family. Curtis seems torn apart when his family has to rely on another man for money, and even once he leaves his wife he still wants to support his daughter. Curtis feels humiliated and emasculated. It’s due to this desperation that Curtis is willing to attempt a heist, and it shows how his character as changed as he realizes that his opportunities after the war are limited.
ReplyDeleteI believe that in the beginning of the movie, Curtis really wants to get out of his house and hometown and the easiest and most honorable way to do that is to join the military. Curtis also really wants to feel like a man and the joining Marines is one of the most manly things somebody can do in life. After five years in Vietnam, Curtis returns home to his girlfriend and daughter. He struggles to find a job with good pay and therefore struggles to support his family. While in Vietnam, Curtis felt like a tough guy; he felt like a man. However, when he returns home he cannot support his family and, in fact, another man is doing it for him. One part of being a man is being able to provide for your family which Curtis is not able to do. So, yet again, Curtis doesn't feel manly. When Curtis joins the heist, it shows how his character has changed from the beginning of the movie. In the beginning, Curtis had a good life and everything was given to him during the war. But, when he got home, his options were limited and he had to go to organized crime in order to make money.
ReplyDeleteIn the beginning of "Dead Presidents", Curtis is much more innocent than he is after Vietnam. He wants to go fight in the war, and he sees it as something brave, interesting and different. He clearly wants to make his own path, but he also doesn't understand how completely horrifying the war in Vietnam really is. Once Curtis is in Vietnam, I think that his idealistic personality is in a way torn away from him, and he becomes a much more world-weary and less guided person. He obviously doesn't have any idea what to do once he gets back. It seems like he was hoping everything would just go back to normal, that he would be in a loving relationship and everyone would be happy. However, this is not the case, and Curtis's only remaining sense of direction is to make money to support the two (soon to be three) people who are depending on him. The Curtis who plans and joins in a bank heist is in no way the same Curtis who wants to go to war in order to be different. He has been completely changed as a person, and is now working simply for money for the ones he loves.
ReplyDeleteCurtis isn’t sure what he really wants in life. As a high school student, he is confident that he wants to join the army and fight in the Vietnam War. However, after he returns, he seems lost. He has difficulty finding a well-paying job and struggles to keep a relationship with the mother of his child. Curtis’ motivation behind participating in a heist is in part because he has just lost his job and needs money, but very likely he also has an empty feeling about his life after the Vietnam War and desperately needs something adrenaline-inducing to happen. Even though Curtis suffers from flashbacks from the obviously traumatic experience in the war, part of him still craves the excitement that a life-threatening situation brought him. Another moment that demonstrates how Curtis has changed is the scene where he plays Cowboy in a game of pool. Before the war, Cowboy pushed him around, but after the war Curtis stands up to him and fights him.
ReplyDeleteBased on my current understanding of the movie, Curtis is pondering the same question: what does he want in life? Everyone needs to have a goal in life. Pursuing that dream is what gives our life purpose and motivates us to continue. Curtis' goal seems a bit fuzzy in the movie. It doesn't appear that Curtis fully understands what he desires in life, hence why he joins the marines in the first place. Curtis doesn't want to become the everyman: the educated, middle-class businessman that his brother became. By joining the marines and fighting in Vietnam, Curtis constantly experiences life-threatening situations. After such traumatizing experiences, Curtis would see a new value in life, and have a greater desire to embrace life when he returns to the United States. Unfortunately, when Curtis returns home, he doesn't find the life he hoped for. His wife had been sleeping around to support herself and their daughter while he was fighting in the war. She didn't have enough money for a nice suburban home to raise a family. Instead, she lives in a small, low-wealth apartment in the city. Now, Curtis struggles to find work and make enough money to support their family. If Curtis had followed his brother's path, he would have a solid education, which would allow him to get a higher paying job to support his family. Instead, Curtis can't get enough money to pay bills and put bread on the table. When faced with such a difficult situation, Curtis turns to crime. This heist, if successful, will give him enough money to live a reasonably comfortable life. Curtis doesn't really know what he wants in life. He tries joining the war to do some "soul searching," but returns to an even more miserable life. As a result, Curtis' decision to turn to crime is consistent with his character. Curtis doesn't know what he wants in life. He didn't want to be an educated businessman like his brother, so he joined the war. He hoped to return as a hero, and to support his new family. Unfortunately, his family crumbles when Curtis discovers that his wife had been having sex with other men. Now, Curtis lost his low-end job as an assistant in a butcher shop. Not knowing where else to turn, Curtis decides to turn to crime.
ReplyDeleteI think that Curtis is not sure what he wants throughout the entire film. While he does want to go to Vietnam, I feel that this is because not only is it different, but he lacks anything else to pursue. Upon his return from the war, Curtis must not provide for his daughter and the mother of his child. Curtis's decision to partake in the heist is an odd one in my opinion. Even though he becomes an alcoholic after the war, he tries to not be like those around him. He's "innocent" before the war and even after the war, Curtis tries not to get deeply involved in the world that has consumed his peers. The theme of manhood plays a pivitol role as I also feel that its a large part of Curtis's decision to to rob the truck. After Juanita basically demoralizes him, Curtis feels the need to prove himself and make some quick cash in hopes of providing for his daughter.
ReplyDeleteLike Ellery, I believe that Curtis is both lost and indecisive. This begins when his family is gathered around the dinner table and Curtis chooses not to go to college. Instead, he wants to be more of a man and go to war just like his father did. This is the one moment where Curtis is truly aware of what he wants because he leaves very important opportunities and loved ones. This includes his girlfriend, a father like figure named Kirby, his family members, and the opportunity that college provides itself. Curtis only did this because he wanted to start his own and new life somewhere far from home, but the fact that he immediately wanted to become involved with the Vietnam War seems predictable. Predictable, because his sudden urge was to become a man, and this seems to being following a very specific path based on society during that time rather than his own creative path. Even though this decision was not creative and immediate, Curtis still goes to war. There, he witnesses very harsh and repulsive things, which later show up as a scar once he returns to The Bronx. He suffers Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD) and is definitely not suitable or stable enough to continue his past lifestyle. Due to trauma, Curtis’s view of the world has changed and he can’t fight off his newly altered genes. He can’t fight off the gruesome images implanted in his brain from war, and his friends from war have also changed in major ways. Skip, a friend from war, used drugs during the war and comes back a heroin addict, which changes him physiologically and physically, because now he needs medical attention. Also, his friend Jose changed and now feels the need to set things on fire. All of these things have a huge affect on Curtis, because sure he tried to drain his heart in war, but his eyes still saw things that then sent signals to his brain leaving his heart affected, because no matter what he did care in the end. He thought he could turn his humanity off, but as a human, humanity naturally comes along for the ride. These damages and permanent scars leave him unable to remain loyal to his wife and daughter, because now Curtis feels the need to drink to “handle” his problems, which in the end causes problems for him and his new family. He won’t push himself to get a better job to provide food on the table. Instead, it seems to circle back to war, because now he is involved with a heist and strongly pursues it with the many thought out plans that are being involved to execute this robbery. If anything, there are many moments where Curtis is indecisive given what I said, but also I must give credit to him for wanting to change his lifestyle, but since he was lost, Curtis ends up nowhere, and just remains lost, because war and his community added an even more permanent affect on him.
ReplyDeleteI believe that throughout Dead Presidents, Curtis has only wanted one thing: a life that’s different, new, and his own. When he was a high school senior about to graduate, he didn’t want to stay on the college track that was being intensely pushed onto him. Curtis decides to not conform to the norm and join the marines to take hold of his own destiny. During the war, Curtis distances himself from the normal family man away at war, trying to immerse himself into the war life. Finally, when he returns, a broken and a changed man, he fails to thrive in a regular family life and decides to organize the heist. He wants to control where he wants to go, and that destination does not involve a nine to five job, ties and all. All of these things Curtis strives for equate a need to create his own life by himself because the normal one given to or suggested for him doesn’t satisfy his cravings.
ReplyDeleteIn the beginning, Curtis seems to want what every teenager wants. He wants to be different from everyone and he wants to feel as if he has meaning. He is very young and a bit naive, as we see him challenge and trash talk 'Cowboy.' Also, while he doesn't reject the violence or paying off cops that Kirby does, he does express disappointment in Kirby when he punches the wife of 'P-daddy' . He doesn't really seem to aspire to a future past the Marines. However, We see him later in recon, and in this wartime environment he has no qualms about doing exactly what he is enlisted to do- kill. We learn that this is because he shuts off "the world." By not associating these things with what he knows, he is able to not think about what he is doing. This mentality seems to be crucial to keeping his wits about him, whereas Skippy lacks it, and suffers greatly because of it. Curtis shuts off his empathy and his ability to love and care it seems in the war, but has trouble reconnecting with it in the real world. Because of his adaptation to the environment of extreme violence, he finds it hard to escape the very horrors which he was trying to block out. This subconcious struggle leads Curtis to doing things we would never suspect of the goofy highschool graduate who happened to be good at pool. We see him not only verbally mistreat but physically abuse and threaten to kill Juanita, when just an hour ago in the movie he was completely devoted to her. Instead of the playfully proud trashtalking after the game of pool with Cowboy, he beats him, breaking the pool stick. Again, an hour ago it was Cowboy's pulling out a knife and nicking him that shocked us. We do not yet know the outcome of the planned heist, but we do see curtis using violence to get money, something he did not have to worry about before leaving to fight and having to raise a family. Obviously, Curtis is far away from the child who objected to punching a woman in the face.
ReplyDeleteI don’t think Curtis necessarily knows what he wants at the beginning of the movie. After high school, he joins the army but not because he is enthusiastic about the army–he just doesn’t want to go to college. After Vietnam, he is reluctant to be with Juanita and support his family. He clearly is not interested in being a father in a traditional setting. He seems almost stuck in his situation and he resorts to drinking to put up with it. In Vietnam he avoided the outside world, but when he is put back into the world he can no longer avoid it. He tries his best to get by, but when he loses his job he has to figure out to make money. I think the bank robbing is consistent with his character post-Vietnam. He is a very violent person so the armed robbery isn’t surprising. The robbery wouldn’t be consistent with pre-Vietnam Curtis, where he was a much softer man. The war hardened him, and it is very evident with his behavior when he returns. How he acts around Juanita is a good example of this. Before the war, he was shy and loving around Juanita, and he attempts to be like this when he returns but he can’t. Curtis is constantly fighting with Juanita and has an extremely short temper.
ReplyDeleteLike Bella, I believe that what Anthony desires is a life that is his own. A life where he makes the calls,. A life that is unique to him. He tries to take his life into his own hands and he doesn't go to college like his parents expect him to. Instead, he joins the Marines and fights in Vietnam, coming back to the Bronx after two tours. After coming back, he isn't the man he once was, a person who was innocent and followed the rules fairly well. Instead, he is a man who is not satisfied with the societal norm, and wants to be a man who dictates his life. Juanita and the child hold him back from an independent life, and he doesn't like it. In addition, Cudi doesn't seem to be making it any better. He wants a different life, which is why he organizes the heist. He does this to set in stone his plan to rule his own life, and the life he is expected to lead does not satisfy him.
ReplyDeleteI have one question though: Would not the GI Bill have helped him do whatever he needs to do? I mean, that way, he could have gotten a college education, he would have one year of unemployment compensation, and a bunch of other benefits. I mean, he could do what he wants, and everything would have been fine, because he would have had the resources to satisfy his desires.